Subject: Most emphatically NOT week 26 of my Bodyopus experience

Copyright Lyle McDonald 1996

Date: 1996/11/09



Ok, first things first, this is NOT (I repeat not) the start of another series
of Bodyopus diaries.  20 weeks of writing those silly things was more than
enough for me.  Doing them on a weekly basis, while enjoyable, just took too
much time and energy and I was starting to repeat myself a bit (hey, when
you've 
only got 4 jokes, you have to keep recycling them).  What this is is a
semi-hemi-
demi update for the Bodyopus crowd with some more thoughts, ponderings
and just general crap I've come up with.

Ok, in the last diary, I had finished up another 10 weeks of dieting right
before
my vacation.  Bodyfat still didn't ever get below 8% (seems to be a plateau
I just can't get past) but that was only 5 weeks of actual dieting.  Next time
I go for cutting, I'm going to ease into it a bit more (as per the
recommendations
of many individuals), no cut calories as quickly and not do as much cardio
and see what happens.

Vacation:
---------
It was nice to have a break from ketogenic dieting.  However, one observation
I made was that I was hungry ALL THE DAMN TIME.  Now, I've seen research
that as little as 3 days on a low carb diet causes rebound hyperinsulinemia
(which is the whole point of the diet anyhow).  What I wonder now is for how
long such a thing continues.  Jeff Krabbe, after 2 years straight on the diet,
reported being hungry all the time as well so I think there's something going
on.  As would be expected, I did gain a lb or 2 of bodyfat back since I wasn't
training that much but that was fine.

Had an enjoyable vacation.  Since I was in LA, I got to spend some time with
Dan Duchaine down in San Diego.  Without giving all the sordid details, here's
the quick report and I have good news and bad news.

The good news: Dan Duchaine is just as much of a pervert as everybody thinks
he is. Which I have absolutely no problem with.  A lot of my good friends are
perverts.  Hey, I'm one too.

The bad news: Hate to break this to everybody, but Dan Duchaine is also one of
the nicest individuals I've ever met (sorry to spill the beans Dan).  He let me
spend an entire weekend pestering him with all my dumb questions, taught
me how to ride those damn recumbent bicycles of his (my knee has finally 
stopped hurting from crashing so many times), showed me around San Diego
and generally was an incredibly gracious host.  He also made me privy to a
personal secret of his that is so astounding, it would set the entire world
of bodybuilding and performance enhancement on fire.  A secret so terrifying
that I am sworn to secrecy or he threatened to send me a jar of Designer protein
laced with DNP if I told anybody.  Trust me when I say this makes his Rants
and articles about Buttmuch look tame by comparison.  But, don't even bother
asking me about this in email, I think he's tapping my line.

Ok, back to reality now (is it reality or is it Memorex).  I had
originally intended
to go to a Zone/Isometric type diet for my next mass phase.  But, for a variety
of reasons, I've decided to stay the ketogenic route a bit longer.  I've
got some
more questions that need answered both for it's applications for natural
athletes
as well as the, umm, non-natural athletes.  No, that doesn't mean that I'm going
to take steroids or anything illegal like that.  Let's just say I may experiment
with some of the gray-area supplements (you know what they are) to check for
efficacy on this diet.  Those who correspond with me via email know what in
the hell I'm talking about. Those who don't have a clue probably shouldn't know 
anyhow.  Sometimes I'm not sure I have a clue what I'm talking about if
that's any
help.

Anyway, I'm back into mass gaining mode (damn! it's nice to eat again) combining
Bodyopus with Charles Poliquin's German Volume Training (10 sets of 10) methods.
Am now in week 3 and things are going stunningly well.  Doing it naturally for
the most part (you guys consider Phenformin on the weekends to be 'natural)
but may look into those other supplements during my next dieting and or mass
gaining phases.  Will post an update at the end of this phase as to how I
trained,
ate, supplements, etc as well as body composition measurements.

But, in the meantime, here are some other questions that have come up regarding
ketogenic diets in general from a couple of people and my thoughts (of course)
on them.

Oh, do me a favor, if you've got questions about this, please make sure I'm
able to answer them before you ask.  AJ in Australia has stumped me a couple
of times and that just makes me mad.

*********************
Q. What are some other variations of the ketogenic diet I can try if the 7 day
cycle is not working for me?

Keep in mind that Bodyopus does NOT have to be a 7 day cycle.  Yes, it fits 
conveniently into a standard work week but the standard cycle may not
work optimally for everybody.  Hence, some Bodyopus variations are necessary.
Having talked to a lot of different people about the topic, here are the major
versions of the Cyclical Ketogenic Diet I can think of.

1. Standard Bodyopus/Anabolic diet: 5 days of low carbs with a 2 day carb-up
2. Slow carb-up Bodyopus: for those who can't achieve maximal glycogen
supercompensation in 2 days: 5 days of low carbs, 3 days of carbing.  Realize
that an 8 day cycle is a big pain in the ass as carb days and training days will
fall on different days each week.  Might as well do the Ultimate diet if you're
going to do this to yourself.
3. Faster fat loss Bodyopus #1: 6 days of low carbs, 1 day carb up.  This will
not achieve full glycogen supercompensation (although you can get 75% of the
way there) unless you use insulin.  Useful for those who need to lose fat
faster.
4. Faster fat loss Bodyopus #2: 12 days of low carbs, 2 day carb up.  Although
not as much fun (because 12 days of low carbs sucks), this will cause 
proportionally greater fat loss than a 7 day cycle.  This is because, out of 
14 days, you will spend approximately 10 days in ketosis (assuming it takes
you 2 days to get into ketosis and you carb for 2) instead of only 7 days (if
you carb every weekend).  For a mental break, I suggest one big carb meal
on Friday or Saturday.  If you do this right, you can potentially spike yourself
back into ketosis.  You should probably change your training split (or not) for
this but that's another topic for another day.  You will have to be very careful
no to overtrain with this method to avoid muscle loss.  And, you should check
body composition at the beginning of the 2 weeks and at the end to see if you've
lost muscle.  If so, you will not be able to sustain ketosis for this long.
5. The Vince Gironda method: Vince has been pushing his 'defo-diet' for years
by recommending eating no carbs, just as much meat and fat as you want.
While I don't think most will get optimal fat loss without keeping track of
calories, this can work.  He does suggest one concentrated carb meal every 4
days.  Workeable but boring, especially if you're counting calories.
6. Masochism Tango Bodyopus (10 more bonus points for anyone who catches
the song reference): Can't recall who it was, but one correspondee told me
of staying on strict low carbs for 6 weeks (!) and then having 7-10 days of
carbing as a break period.  This is much close to the Atkins diet than anything
else and I'd fear loss of muscle tissue going this long without carbs (not to
mention loss of what little is left of my sanity) but it may be useful if you've
got a lot of fat to lose and not much patience.

And, that's just for fat loss.  For muscle gain, I think the variations
get even 
more complex but I'll save that for another day.  This is what I'm experimenting
with right now. But, some questions to ponder are:
1. Just how many carbs can you consume and still maintain ketosis?
2. Is it possible to use super high GI carbs post workout and spike onesself
back into ketosis while getting the benefits of elevated insulin and GH post
workout?
3. Would more than one 'mid-week' carb spike be viable and would it encourage
more growth?
4. What's the best way to use insulin on Bodyopus for growth?

On and on it goes.

*********************
This one came up from two different people right before I left on my trip which
gave me a good two weeks to think about it?  Of course, I still don't have an
answer but that's ok.

Q. Once ketosis is established, would it be possible to lower dietary fat intake
to increase the use of body fat to make ketones?

Or, put differently, once in ketosis, what's the lowest ketogenic ratio
that will
maintain ketosis?  Here's the rationale.

Now, recall that I argued previously that a lower meal frequency (3 meals vs. 6)
per day might cause greater fat loss based on some varying physiological data.

1. Ketones can be made from either dietary fat or body fat.
2. The amount of ketones made from body fat depends on the concentration of
ketones in your bloodstream (which we can indirectly measure by ketone 
concentration in your urine as urinary excretion represents the difference
between ketone production and ketone utilization)

Hence, it makes sense to me that keeping blood concentration of ketones low
(by not putting in loads of dietary fat all the time or even diluting it by 
drinking boatloads of water) should allow for more bodyfat to be used.

So, back to the question.
I have written previously that a minimum ratio of 1.5 grams of fat for every 
gram of protein AND carbs is necessary to establish ketosis.  This is based 
on data from epileptic kiddies and an equation for determining the relative
ketogenic vs. anti-ketogenic ratio of a given meal.  The ketogenic kiddies 
use a ratio as high as 4 grams of fat for every gram of protein/carbs but, 
to control their epilepsy, they seem to need a higher concentration of 
ketones in the blood. This would not be good for a bodybuilder trying to 
shed fat however.

So, once ketosis is established, my question is how little fat can be consumed
and still maintain ketosis.  A long term adaptation to this diet *seems* to be
that the body will make ketones are lower and lower ketogenic ratios.  This is
an inference based on the epileptic kiddies.  Although they are started with
a ketogenic ratio of 4:1, the KR is greadually lowered to 3:1,2:1, and 1:1 as
they adapt to the diet.  This tells me that their bodies become more efficient
at making ketones as time passes.  I wonder if the same thing would happen
in a healthy bodybuilder.   As an aside, somebody asked if it made sense to
rapidly establish ketosis by consuming a massive ketogenic ratio (like 3 or 4:1)
and then lowering fat intake to 1.5:1.  For me, it matters little as I
find myself
entering ketosis faster and faster (another indication that a long term
adaptation to this diet is for the body to prefer ketones for fuel).  Usually
there by the end of my first workout of the week regardless of what I eat
on the weekends.

Here's the problem though: recall that the only way we have to measure ketone
concentration in the body is through indirect measurement of urinary ketone
levels.  So, let's say we take Bodybuilder X (not to be confused with the guy
TC 'interviewed') and have him eat a 1.5:1 ratio at maintenance calories on Mon
and Tue, train the way he should and have him in ketosis by Tuesday night.  He's
showing at least trace ketones in his urine and everything is hunky dory.

Now, he decides he wants to lose more fat and decreases fat intake and brings
his ketogenic ratio down to 1:1.  As long as he's still showing ketones on the
ketostix, he's fine.  We know he's still in ketosis (which means he's sparing
muscle tissue and protein from gluconeogenesis.  Oh, this is despite what
a certain moderator of a certain mailing list happens to beleive but that's
ok too), he's still getting maximal fat burning and everything's great.  But, 
what if he's not showing ketones on the ketostix?  Well, we have no 
way of telling if.
1. He's kicked himself out of ketosis and has fucked himself (because now he's
going to break down muscle protein for glucose)
or
2. Just burning up all the ketones he's making through various activity.

Right now I can't see any good way out of this.  If they were more accurate,
we could use a glucometer to see if blood sugar were still in ketoland but I 
still have yet to show a blood glucose lower than about 60 when I've been
in ketosis.  So, they aren't really reliable enough for this use.  There is such
a thing as a breath ketone analyzer but I don't even have the first idea on
where to find one or what it would cost.

Have to ponder this some more and see what I can come up with.

***************
This one has come up a few times in email and here are my thoughts.

Q. Would it be possible to modify a Bodyopus type of diet for sedentary dieters
to avoid some of the muscle loss that they inevitably see?  Or, put differently,
will the weekend (or every other weekend carb-up) cause them to save more
muscle mass than just staying in ketosis (aka Atkin's Diet) all the time.

>In other words can Joe Average, the semi-couch potato, use a modified BO, 
and have more sucess on this than , say, on Atkins? Does the Anabolic rebound
only occur with some form of weight training.

Ok, first the ranting at most fat loss diet approaches in genral.  Any
diet which
does not include exercise will lead to major muscle loss, ketogenic or not.
Yes, a ketogenic will spare more muscle but you will still lose some if 
you're not dieting.  Studies of high carb diet only vs. high carb diet+exercise
(unspecified at this time) show that, while diet only groups lose 25-50% 
of their total weight as muscle, the exercise+diet group can lose 99% of 
more of the weight as fat (some studies with weight training show that 
muscle is actually gained while dieting and more than 100% of the weight 
lost is fat).  So, I think regardless of the diet type, exercise is the
absolutely 
critical component to maintaining muscle.  Aerobic exercise does a fair job 
of it with weight training the clear winner.  Basically, muscle is superfluous 
as far as your body is concerned.  Weight training is the 'signal' for your 
body to hold onto the muscle.

Ok, so would a BO/AD approach work for non-exercisers.  I don't think so 
for several reasons:

1. While it's convenient to posit that the anabolism is strictly due to the 
glycogen supercompensation I think this is incorrect.  As pointed out by 
a critical buddy of mine, if supercompensation per se was the key to 
growth, endurance athletes would gain muscle when they did it.  It sure 
seems that it's weight training + glycogen depletion + glycogen 
supercompensation that's the key.

2. Without exercise to deplete muscle glycogen (a misunderstanding of 
the ketogenic state is that muscle glycogen is depleted.  All that's important
for ketosis to occur is that blood glucose be lowered and all that requires 
is for liver glycogen to be empty.  You could have full muscle glycogen and 
still be in ketosis.  Using insulin would do just that), a carb-up would fill 
up muscle glycogen (moreso since it wasn't depleted in the first place) and 
then spill way over (I mean more than I get with my pig outs on the weekend) 
to fat cells.

3. Additionally, maximal glycogen supercompensation only occurs under
two conditions:
a. glycogen depletion: which we have established won't occur very well 
without training
b. exercise: which increase enzyme activity in the muscles worked.  
Hence the importance of *some* type of workout prior to the carb-up.

So, a sedentary person carbing even semi-ocassionaly would probably screw
themselves in a big way. Again, the way around this is to add exercise to the
mix.  Any dieter that doesn't is fucked from the get go regardless of what
diet they do.

****************
So, Bodyopus boys and girls, that's all I've got to offer for right now. 
Look for
another six week Bodyopus summary in about 3 weeks and if I think of any
other questions or ideas, you'll see them here (or in Duchaine's Dirty Dieting
newsletter.  Told you there were reasons I was going to continue to suffer
on this diet).

Lyle McDonald, CSCS
lylemcd@edge.edge.net