Subject: My Bodyopus Experienc.week 8 (another long 'un) Copyright Lyle McDonald 1996 Date: 1996/06/23
"The Epilepsy Diet Treatment" book and ketogenic ratios This book describes the diet used at John Hopkins medical center for the TREATMENT of childhood epilepsy. Due to unspecified mechanisms (possibly related either to ketosis or pH levels of the blood), a ketogenic diet will control epileptic seizures in children in a majority (something like 80%+) of cases without any dangerous medications (ALL of which have major side effects). There are two things I took away from this book: Number one, for healthy, non-diabetic individuals, long term ketosis is safe and healthy. (the kiddies are frequently kept in deep ketosis on a calorically restricted (75% of maintenance), water restricted (so as not to dilute ketone levels) diet for OVER A YEAR) So all the 'Ketosis is dangerous' people can just go take a leap off a bridge. These kids show no side effects (unless you consider treatment of a debilitating disease with no need to use medications a side effect) spending a year or more in deep ketosis. Bodyopus dieters spend 4 days out of 7 in ketosis. The kids are kept in deep ketosis the whole time. The average active Bodyopus dieter shouldn't get much further than trace to small ketone levels in the blood. So, please tell me, how it can be bad for us!? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Ok, the other thing (and this applies I think to my problems last week with getting into ketosis) I pulled from this book was the idea of the ketogenic ratio. The book present a nifty little equation to determine the ketogenic potential of any food or mixed meal. It is: Ketogenic K 0.9 (fat) + 0.46 (pro) -------------- = --- = --------------------------------- Anti-ketogenic AK 1.0 (carb) + 0.1 (fat) + .58 (pro) Note: all values for fat, pro and carb are in grams. The ratio should be at least 1.5 for ketone production (which *is* what we're after, right?). Keep that number (1.5) in mind. Again, this formula is useful if you want to find out the ketogenic potential of a given food or meal. When you work it out, you find that you pretty much have to drown everything in some type of lard to keep it ketogenic. If any meal becomes anti-ketogenic, there's a high possibility, I think, of getting kicked out of ketosis. The ketogenic ratio (KR) ---------------------- The researchers at Johns Hopkins have basically determined what ratios are necessary to get the kiddies into deep ketosis to prevent their seizures. What the KR represents is the ratio of fat (highly ketogenic as only 10% can convert to glucose) to protein and carbohydrates (both of which are anti-ketogenic with carbs the most AK and protein in the middle). So, a 4:1 KR would mean a dietary intake of 4 grams of fat (note that this is not calories and not percent of calories) for each gram of protein or carbohydrate. They give a handy chart (reproduced below) which gives the ketogenic ratios, and the caloric 'blocks' they use to figure out diets. I'll also present the percent of total calories this yields for ease of use. KR Fat gms Pro/cho gms Fat cals Pro/cho cals Tot cals/block ------------------------------------------------------------- 1:1 1 1 9 4 13 1.5:1 1.5 1 14 4 18 2:1 2 1 18 4 22 3:1 3 1 27 4 31 4:1 4 1 36 4 40 5:1 5 1 45 4 49 Key: KR = ketogenic ratio Fat gms = grams of fat Pro = protein Cho = carbohydrate KR % fat % pro/cho ------------------------------ 1:1 69% 31% (The Anabolic diet is here) 1.5:1 77% 23% (Bodyopus is here) 2:1 81% 19% 3:1 87% 13% 4:1 90% 10% 5:1 91% 9% *Percentages of total calories were calculated by dividing the total number of calories by the calories from fat or protein. That is, with a 1:1 ratio, 9 of the 13 calories are fat which is 69%. The remainder is pro/cho.* Bodyopus suggests a 25% pro/75% fat ratio which is about a 1.5:1 ratio. The Anabolic Diet suggests 30-35% protein and 65-70% fat which is about a 1:1 ratio. The kids are typically started at a 4:1 ratio to quickly establish deep ketosis (they are also fasted and water restricted but neither is something I would suggest to a healthy individual). This does not allow for much protein. As the kids adapt to the diet, the KR is brought down to 3:1, 2:1, and then 1:1 as they are weaned from the diet over the span of about a year (no explanation was given as to why they were taken off the diet at all. However, this does raise the question of staying on a ketogenic diet for longer than a year as any potential health problems have not been studied for this length of time.) Interestingly, the kids stay in ketosis even with a lowered KR which seems to support Pasquale's contention that the longer you stay on the diet, the more you adapt to it. Also, Jeff Krabbe has told me that, after a year of Anabolic Dieting, he essentially remains in ketosis and loses fat too quickly if he doesn't consume enough carbs. Apparently, his body has made such a shift from carb metabolism to ketone metabolism that ketones have become the preferred fuel. Must be nice. The book determines caloric need based on bodyweight, age and things of that sort. We should all know how to calculate caloric requirements (roughly 12Xbodyweight calories per day for moderately active, 15Xbodyweight calories for fairly active, and 18Xbodyweight calories for really active. Typically 10Xbodyweight calories is suggested for fat loss with little muscle loss for a high carb diet. The nature of ketosis is that you can consume maintenance calories and still lose fat though. So, if you really hate restricting calories, you don't absolutely have to. But you will lose fat faster.) If you want to figure out your percentages, simply decided what ratio you want to use and then divide total calories by the total calories per 'block' (i.e. a 1:1 ratio is a 13 calorie block of 1 gram fat and 1 gram protein OR carbohydrate). So, at 2000 calories/day and a 2:1 ratio (22 calories per dietary block), you get: 2000/22 = 90 blocks. 90 * 2 = 180 grams of fat per day 90 * 1 = 90 grams of combined protein and carbohydrate per day. Basically, you end up having to use lots of pure dietary fat (oils, mayo, cream cheese although it has some protein) to balance out your high protein foods like chicken. For example, a 3 oz chicken breast (not much) has roughly 24 grams of protein. At a 2:1 ratio, you need 48 grams of fat which is four and a half tablespoons of mayonaisse or about three and a half tbsp of pure oil. Yuck. If you hope to be successful with ketogenic dieting, you might as well get used to it. Another option to figure out how much fat is to estimate protein requirements and work the calculations in reverse. The book suggests a value of 1 gram protein/kg of body weight to maintain lean mass. But, the kids are not working out. The question is how much additional protein do we need for weight trainers on a ketogenic diet. I've seen values in the literature as high as 2 grams/kilo of bodyweight (roughly 1 gram per pound) but that was looking at a high carb diet so there's no way to tell if it's an applicable value or not. The problem is, for a relatively large person, any ketogenic ratio above 1:1 will most likely put them above caloric requirements for a dieting situation. Let's do the math for a 200 lb individual assuming he needs 1 gram protein per lb of bodyweight and wants to achieve a 1.5:1 KR which is about the minimum I think will get him into ketosis assuming he's natural (i.e. using insulin would likely get you into ketosis consuming a lower ratio). He will be taking in 200 grams of protein per day and 300 (200*1.5) grams of fat (this is assuming that carbohydrate grams are essentially zero). For every gram of carbs taken in, an additional 1.5 grams of fat has to be consumed to keep the diet ketogenic in nature. So, 200 grams protein*4 cals/gram = 800 calories. 300 grams fat*9 cals/gram = 2700 calories. Total calories is 3500 which is likely above maintenance (figure 15Xbodyweight for a decently active bodybuilder and you've only got 3000 calories per day). So, we have a problem. For this person to diet, he will have to reduce protein below the magical 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. Reducing fat won't work as it reduces the ketogenic ratio too much and will likely keep this person out of ketosis (which, as I discuss below is what I think happened to me last week. In an effort to cut calories, I reduced fat intake which lowered my ketogenic ratio. Hence, I dropped out of ketosis.). The question (which I don't have the answer to) is how little protein can we consume on a ketogenic diet (assuming high quality sources here) without losing mass. We know that the state of ketosis is protein sparing in and of itself but by how much? Anyone out there have the answer to this? Lyle McDonald, CSCS ----------------------------------- The body composition record: Day Date Weight Pec Abs SI Thigh Sum3 BF% FM FFM -------------------------------------------------------------- Mon 4/31 156 15.4% 24 132* Mon 5/6 153 13.6% 21 132* Mon 5/13 154 7 27 18 8 42 12.2% 18.8 135.2 Mon 5/20 151 6 27 17.5 9 42 12.2% 18.4 132.6 Mon 5/27 154 5 24 18 8.5 37.5 10.4% 16 138 Mon 6/3 149 5 25.5 15.5 8 38.5 10.4% 15.5 133.5 Mon 6/10 155 5 26 16 8 39 11.3% 17.5? 137.5 Mon 6/17 149 5 25 16 8 38 11.3% 16.8 132.2 * These two measurement were taken with the one site home calipers. Therefore, they may or may not be directly comparable to the other measures. Key: BF% = body fat percentage FM = fat mass in lbs FFM = fat free mass (total weight - FM) Ok, the trend is moving downward again. I've decided that it's time to get serious and make the final push. I've simply accepted that morning temp is not coming back up at this point (hanging tight at a still anemic 97.0) so I've decided to just screw it. The goal is to achieve 7% bodyfat by the end of week 10 which gives me three weeks to lose 6 lbs. I will be cutting calories to 1500 per day this week to monitor results. If necessary (and I hope it's not), I will cut them farther in week 9 and 10. Also, I plan to do a rather voluminous amount of exceedingly low intensity cardio to burn ketone calories. Hey, maybe I'll even start eating healthier during the carb-ups. Nah, probably won't happen. About the only way I can stick to this diet is if I know that I can have my sucrose on the weekends. Donuts. Yumm. My week at a glance: ------------------- Sunday: Went for a 25 mile bike ride to burn some glycogen. Back to low carb today. Monday: Ate 1500 calories today. My diet was: Breakfast: string cheese, 5 sticks (350 calories) Lunch 1: pink salmon in mayo (approx 420 calories) Lunch 2: the other half of my salmon (420 calories) Dinner: whey protein pudding in heavy cream (350 calories) Also had some sugar free jello with whipped cream for dessert. Supplements: back on ECA at 50mg ephedrine, 200 mg caff, 81 mg aspirin, 1 gram tyrosine, 8 mg Yohimbe Fuel in addition to my normal supps. (vanadyl, chromium, anti-oxidants, etc.) Took 2 doses per day as the third typically keeps me up all night. Workout: My ex-girlfriend has decided to try this diet to see what happens so we trained together. Having learned my damn lesson last week, I went back to the basics and trained legs, back, and biceps today. Started with 10' cardio and ended with 10' cardio. The workout looked like this: Squat: 2 warmups, 2 sets of 8-10 to failure, 1 set of 20-25 Leg curl: 1 warmup, 2 sets of 8-10, 1 set of 20-25 Calf raise: 1 warmup, 2 sets of 8-10, 1 set 20-25 (getting the pattern yet). Chins, Seated row, Shrugs, Bicep curl Here's the theory: We want to stimulate an anabolic response with this workout. But, we also want to burn out glycogen and blood glucose to achieve ketosis again. Sets of 6-10 stimulate growth. Sets of 20-25 burn glycogen (i.e. the depletion workout). So, ask I, why not just combine the two for best results? I'm in trace ketosis as of tonight (48 hours from stopping carbs) which gives my 4 full days to burn ketones. My ex is not taking any of the glucose disposal agents and I'll be interested to see if she hits ketosis tomorrow after the workout (she did the same thing as I did, just with lighter weights). Tomorrow is chest, delts, tris, and abs. Tuesday: I'm back out of ketosis out of this morning (wondering it last night's trace reading was just wishful thinking). Did some light cardio (30') this morning after training my clients. I've been thinking about my problems last week with ketosis and my inability (as of 12pm, no ketones) this week to enter ketosis and I think I figured it out. Looking back over my diet this week (see Monday diet) and last, I think I was eating too little fat and too much protein. Recall my discussion of ketogenic ratios above from the Epilepsy Diet Treatment book. They use a ratio of 4:1 to induce ketosis which is a 90% fat diet (not much room for protein). Duchaine/ Pasquale recommend a 75% fat diet which works out (when you do the math) to about 1.5 grams of fat per gram of protein. While this ratio may be a bit low, consider that the kiddies are not performing regular exercise which also helps to keep blood glucose down. And, they want deep, deep ketosis to prevent seizures. We are simply looking for ketosis is general (i.e. trace is enough). Looking at my diet, I have been at about a 1:1 ratio of fat to protein (really negligble carbs) which I think was the problem. I recall playing around with this last week. While in ketosis, I ate a couple of meals with a 1:1 ratio of fat:protein and, testing for ketones later, showed lowered amounts. The upshot being that you cannot cut fat intake on this diet or you will really screw yourself (interestingly, my friend BK who has problems getting into ketosis regularly is eating about a 1:1 fat:pro ratio. When we bump his fat intake up, he gets into ketosis. The problem being that we can't be sure if the ketones are coming from body fat (good) or dietary fat (neutral)). The other upshot of having to keep this ratio at 1.5:1 or higher being that 1500 calories is NOT a lot of food since most of it is fat. At 25% pro and 75% fat, it works out to: 1500*.75=1125 calories of fat/9 cals/gram = 125 grams fat. 1500*.25 = 375 calories protein/4 cals/gram = 93 grams protein. I've got 132 lbs of lean mass which is 60 kg. 93 grams of protein is only 1.5 grams protein/kg which I hope is sufficient (hell, it's more than I used to eat doing high carbs with maintanance calories). So, to balance things out today, I consumed: Breakfast: 3 cheese sticks (5 gram pro, 5 gram fat each) and 2Tbsp cream cheese (2 grams pro, 10 grams fat): Total 17 grams protein, 25 grams fat which barely makes a 1.5:1 ratio. Lunch 1 and 2: 1 cup of pink salmon (about 1/2 the can) with 4 TBSP mayo total (Salmon = 360 cals, 48 pro, 20 fat ; Mayo = 400 cals, 44 fat ; Total = 760 cals, 48 pro, 64 fat which is just shy of a 1.5:1 ratio) Dinner: 1 scoop designer (18 grams pro) with 1 Tbsp olive oil and 1 Tbsp flax oil (28 grams total). Right at a 1.5:1 ratio. Alternately, I'll have Designer pudding with 6 TBSP of heavy cream (30 grams of fat) and 1 scoop Designer (18 grams pro). Basically interchangeable meals. Dessert: 1 cup sugar free jello with dairy free whipped cream (essentially zero calories). This really helps psychologically and adds negligble calories to the diet. Like I said, not a lot of food. But, for cut abs, I can just deal with it and quite whining so damn much, right? If it were easy to reach physical perfection (not that I'm anywhere close), everyone would be doing it. It's a good thing that ECA blunts hunger during the day. The evening will just have to be sheer willpower. And I do get to binge for 24 hours this weekend so it's not so bad. I wonder where I can get some of those cool appetite supressants Dan talked about. Oh, one other thing, I finally checked on insulin and the PDR shows it as an OTC (over the counter) drug which means no prescriptions. And, the city where I live does not require prescriptions for needles so I could conceivably go the the pharmacy and get some today (insulin is not that expensive either. I don't know how much needles run). I debated this for a while today and decided against this route for now. Here's why: Duchaine has gone out of his way to develop a dietary approach to achieve low bodyfat levels with no muscle loss without the use of drugs. That is the whole point of Bodyopus, right? Yes, he included the chapter on thyroid and the other dieting drugs for completeness but he does comment that everyone will draw their own line as to how much they will/will not use of that stuff. I drew the line at thyroid meds. Some might use thyroid but not use insulin. It's a personal choice. Bodyopus will work fine without that other stuff, but the other stuff will likely make the diet easier. In any case, my decision not to use insulin right now is based on two things: 1. I want to prove (at least to myself) that the diet can work without breaking any laws (ok, insulin isn't a prescription item and I wouldn't technically be breaking the law but you know what I mean) as many won't be willing to do that. Also, many simply object on principle to the 'frivolous' use of drugs like thyroid or insulin if you're not medically diagnosed with a problem. This can be debated until the cows come home but no one will win. If you want to get in shape 'at any cost', use all the drugs and crap. If not, you need to know that Bodyopus can work without all that stuff. 2. I want to prove to myself that I can get into shape without resorting to those things. This is a simply a personal hangup which you may or may not share. Sorry, but it's time for the sob story: I was a fat little kid (fat parents, no exercise, the whole deal) and always caught shit from the jock boys in high school. Now things are turned around: they are all getting fat and losing their hair and I'm the jock with a pony tail (can't wait for that 10 year reunion in a couple of years). I've always aspired to having cut abs but could never get anywhere close with high carb dieting. I had basically given up all hope until I came across Bodyopus (geez, that sounds like a infomercial doesn't it? Only 3 easy payments of $29.95 if you order now...). IAE, getting in shape naturally (something I've never been able to do in the past) would be a major achievement for me. Sure, I'll never be a bodybuilder or much of an athlete. But, to achieve something (in this case, ripped abs) that I've never had anywhere even near my grasp without resorting to a crutch like insulin or cytomel or lipsusuction or whatever would mean more than simply the posession of ripped abs. That is, I've got to prove to myself that I've got what it takes (willpower? determination?) to do this naturally before I can resort to drugs or whatever. Also, as a personal trainer, I have to know how to get my people in shape without resorting to potentially dangerous drugs as most if not all of my clients would be hesitant to use them. Hence, the 'natural' Bodyopus experience. Does this make sense or does the end justify the means in this case? Opinions? (Ok, here's the 'real' reason I decided not to use insulin yet: I'm a chicken shit. Not that needles scare me as I've sat in front of that stupid glucometer at various times. But, insulin can be downright fatal if you're not careful. And I can't afford to die when I haven't gotten laid in such a long time.) Oh, one last thing, note that above I frequently added the rider "not yet" in regards to using insulin. I plan ('come hell or high water' as we say in the south) to be at 7% bodyfat by the end of week 10. That is the official end of the 'diet' phase (i.e. the goal being loss of bodyfat) of my Bodyopus experience. At that point, I will concentrate on adding muscle to my rather wimpy frame (hell, maybe I'll even enter the new MM2K "Best Shape of Your Life"contest and win a year's supply of some supplement I don't need/won't use). I'm not sure if I'll use a ketogenic diet as I don't know if I can eat that many calories of fat and protein. But, I might. In which case, short term insulin use may be of benefit for carb loading and stimulating anabolism, etc. Again, week 10 is the end of my official dieting (and, sob, the end of my boring the hell out of you with these weekly updates. I may do occasional updates if I find anything interesting out about the diet or ways to tweak it but writing this every week does take a lot of time). At that point, I'll have proved: 1. That Bodyopus works as promised at least for me. and 2. That I *can* get in shape if I put my mind to it. With those things accomplished, the end will justify the means (although I still won't use any illegal drugs like steroids) as far as packing on muscle. If that means risking it all with insulin, I can deal with it (and, don't worry, I'll do my homework on how to keep from killing myself before I take my first shot. To refrain last week, "I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid." Or how about "I may be dumb and I *am* stupid but I'm not recklessly insane.") Ok, back to the topic at hand. Lifted again tonight with the ex. It's nice to have a partner. She's stubbornly tenacious, the kind of person who I can motivate by saying "I bet you can't do 100 reps with that weight" and I'd come back 3 hours later and she'd be on number 87. That's why she gets in shape so much faster than I do. She forces me to push harder than I push myself (got to try to impress her, right). IAE, tonight was chest, delts, tris and abs (same format as yesterday: two warmups, two work sets, and one set of 20-25 to deplete glycogen). I'll be interested to see if she's in ketosis by tomorrow morning considering she's been on 1200 calories of protein and fat (which is hard for her as she's a vegetarian). Followed with 10' of cardio on the bike. I was not in ketosis after workout but re-entered about 20' later (assuming I burned off any 'extra' ketones training). Wednesday: I'm in fairly deep ketosis this morning after waking up. Which is good because ketone buildup overnight has to be coming from body fat. Just gonna pee that abdominal fat off my body if I have to. Today is just cardio at low intensity/moderate volume to burn ketones and will consume the 1500 calories same as yesterday. Also, up to 3 doses ECA. But, I dropped the tyrosine just in case it is a glucogenic amino acid (I suppose I *could* look it up but, until I do, I'm not taking any chances) which might keep me out of ketosis. (FYI, individual amino acids can be either glucogenic meaning they can convert to glucose, or ketogenic and can convert to ketones). Oh, yeah, talked to the ex today. In addition to being hellishly sore from the workouts I put her through (Ha! Break up with me...), she is already in ketosis based only on the two workouts (which took about 45' apiece) above, no additional cardio and approximately 1200 calories per day. This brings up two things I've mentioned before: 1. It may be useful to do some high rep sets early in the week to hasten the descent into ketosis. My ex was the control subject I needed as, unlike me, she won't go out of her way to do extra cardio. Just weights and calorie regulation like Dan intended. 2. Using things like vanadyl and other blood glucose disposal agents (which she is not as she can't afford them) doesn't seem necessary to get into ketosis. Might they speed up the descent a bit? Sure. But, are they critical? I would have to conclude not. I guess this comes down to how quickly you need to get into shape. For the pre-contest bodybuilder with a time frame to get into shape, the use of glucose disposal agents to enter ketosis as fast as possible is probably warranted. For the rest of us..... Finally, in the spirit of completeness, I did a blood glucose check this morning as I was in ketosis. For the first time since I've checked, it showed me below 70 mg/dl giving a value of 62. Which raises two questions: 1. Do you really have to get blood glucose to 50 to enter ketosis? or 2. Is there just too much inaccuracy in the glucometers to make them useful on this diet? Oh, yeah, did 30' of light cardio with the ex tonight to burn some ketones. She's going through that first week feel like shit phase as she adapts but she's hanging in there. Thursday: Did a light 30' walk before breakfast to burn some more ketone calories. Bodyweight is the lowest it's been since about week 3 (145) and I feel/look noticeably tighter (the gauge I use sometimes is the amount of fat in my lower back area. When that starts to get tight, I'm know starting to lose fat again). I may try cutting calories a bit lower today but am not sure I can make it on anything less than 1500. I was right. Stuck at 1500 calories (still damn low) and ate some extra jello and celery (no, not together) to help with the hunger. The carb-up is so close I can just taste all that yummy sucrose. Friday: Here's the tabulated Friday changes in bodyfat: Day Date Weight Pec Abs SI Thigh Sum3 BF% FM FFM -------------------------------------------------------------- Fri 5/17 145 8 27 18 8 41 12.2% 17.7 129 Fri 5/24 144 5 24 19 8 37 10.4% 15 129 Fri 5/31 146 5 24.5 17 8 37 10.4% 15.1 130.9 Fri 6/7 146 5 25.5 15.5 7.5 38 11.3% 16.5 129.5 Fri 6/14 146 5.5 25 16 8 38.5 11.3% 16.5 129.5 Fri 6/21 144 5 24 13.5 8 37 10.4% 14.9 129.1 Key: BF% = body fat percentage FM = fat mass in lbs FFM = fat free mass (total weight - FM) Alright! Back on track at last. I noted with interest the big change in the suprailiac measure even if abdominals didn't come down too much (although, it's back to the lowest it's been at any point during the last 8 weeks). This simply tells me that my abs are going to be the last place to shape up for me. The 1500 calories/day seems to be working and I plan to stay there next week or maybe cut by another 100 calories per day (1 cheese stick) or something. Now I just gotta try to get psyched for the depletion workout. The workout: The ex and I made it through 45' of high rep circuit training (the gym was closing) for the depletion workout and then the grand pig out started. Saturday: Nothing exciting to report here. Just your basic junk food carb day. However, I did not take HCA on schedule and it made a big difference in how much I ate. I definitely feel like I spilled over some water and maybe fat without it. Whoops. Went for a 30' in-line skate to try to do some damage control. If you're not following Dan's specific recomposition guidelines, I highly recommend HCA to keep you from overeating/spilling over. Sunday: Went for a long mountain bike ride with a friend in the heat and I am drained as hell. Although the plan was to stop carbing at the 30 hour mark last night, I did have some more carbs after the ride so I wouldn't be too depleted to train legs tomorrow. I can definitely see the difference without the HCA vs. last week. Last week I looked lean and filled, this week I just look water retentive and bloated. Won't make that mistake again. Next week: Got a couple more ponderings to share with you before this 10 week experiment comes to an end. I'd put 'em in this update but it's already too long. Lyle McDonald